What is your carry gun of choice

Primary & Backup EDC Pistols
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heofon
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#26 Re: What is your carry gun of choice

Postby heofon » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:15 pm

I carry a Kahr CW45 with Double Tap Ammo 450 SMC JHPs. I sometimes carry my Makarov PM with Hornady XTP JHP. My BUG is an IO Hellcat .380. My truck gun is a Keltec Sub2k in 9mm.

Securitydawg
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#27 Re: What is your carry gun of choice

Postby Securitydawg » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:35 pm

Glock 26 or 27 in a Galco Classic Shoulder Holster. Caliber choice depends on who I'll be with and what they carry.
Looking at the Galco Classic Lite Shoulder rig. Hear good things about it.
S&W Model 60 - 5 shot in an ankle holster with +P+ if I need a second.
Then we can start talking about knives and pepper spray. Gotta have escalation options...
Got a set of cuffs or flex cuffs in there somewhere also.
Can't get Glock 43's in California yet. I'm hoping the new NRA/CRPA Legal Challenge against microstamping will let them start coming our way.

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Jack
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#28 Re: What is your carry gun of choice

Postby Jack » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:45 pm

Securitydawg wrote:Glock 26 or 27 in a Galco Classic Shoulder Holster. Caliber choice depends on who I'll be with and what they carry.
Looking at the Galco Classic Lite Shoulder rig. Hear good things about it.
S&W Model 60 - 5 shot in an ankle holster with +P+ if I need a second.
Then we can start talking about knives and pepper spray. Gotta have escalation options...
Got a set of cuffs or flex cuffs in there somewhere also.
Can't get Glock 43's in California yet. I'm hoping the new NRA/CRPA Legal Challenge against microstamping will let them start coming our way.


I would caution against carrying restraints unless you're law enforcement.

Securitydawg
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#29 Re: What is your carry gun of choice

Postby Securitydawg » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Jack,
I am retired LEO and was a Department Range Master and Defensive Tactics Instructor.
Scenario:
In California, you are not going to shoot someone unless he is a specific and immediate threat to you or someone else.
So you two get into it in a public place and you hit him with a non-lethal shot and he goes down, but he's not out of the game.
You approach and he is trying to get up. You put him back down on the ground and kick/take his weapon.
He is bleeding and struggling to get up.
What are you going to do until LEOs and Medical arrive?
How will your actions look in court? Both Criminal and Civil?
I am going to restrain/cuff him for my safety and those around me, then provide first aid. You do provide first aid? Or do you stand there and watch him bleed out. Or he runs away and bleeds out.

Shooting another person is attempted murder/murder every where I know of. A Judge, District Attorney (Prosecutor), Defense Attorney and Jury of your Peers will minutely examine everything that happened leading up to, during and after your event. Things that happened in moments, will be dissected for hours. And they will do it in the comfort of a court room and at their own pace.

You may win Criminally but what about Civilly? The standard of proof is much lower Civilly. You want to win Criminally and loose Civilly? You want to loose everything and end up burdened by a huge judgement. You have to sell everything (your house and cars) to try to pay the judgement?
Personally, I'll carry cuffs or flex cuffs and do the best I can.

You also have "CCW Insurance" don't you along with current First Aid, CPR and Range Training, with monthly trips to the range. At the range you fire the same course of fire you were trained with. You also have the Range Master mark, sign and date your target, which you keep to show the court you are not a "crazy vigilante with a gun". You treat privilege to carry a gun seriously, professionally and with respect.

I realize I'm trained/experienced (17 years service) in California Law and procedures, and am held to a higher standard due to my former profession (including being a Department Trained and Certified Range Master for an agency of over 2,000 sworn LEOs).

Jack, I don't disagree with your comment, but life is complex, especially when Deadly Force is used.
I am open to discussion and look forward to it, though this thread may not be the proper forum.
Dave

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#30 Re: What is your carry gun of choice

Postby BadgeBunny » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:40 pm

Jack wrote:
Securitydawg wrote:Glock 26 or 27 in a Galco Classic Shoulder Holster. Caliber choice depends on who I'll be with and what they carry.
Looking at the Galco Classic Lite Shoulder rig. Hear good things about it.
S&W Model 60 - 5 shot in an ankle holster with +P+ if I need a second.
Then we can start talking about knives and pepper spray. Gotta have escalation options...
Got a set of cuffs or flex cuffs in there somewhere also.
Can't get Glock 43's in California yet. I'm hoping the new NRA/CRPA Legal Challenge against microstamping will let them start coming our way.


I would caution against carrying restraints unless you're law enforcement.


In Oklahoma, unless the law has changed recently, it is illegal to carry restraints unless you are a commissioned peace officer. There have been plenty of discussion here, there and yonder as to whether the statute prohibiting the carrying of restraints applies to licensed security guards or not, but -- and I can freely admit that it has been a LONG time since I read the statute -- but a licensed security guard is NOT the same thing as a commissioned peace officer in Oklahoma.

All that said, I have a conceal carry license not a peace officer commission. If I can articulate a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death, I will use everything at my disposal to make sure that does not happen to me.

I am now officially "too old for that chit" as they say. :taptap:

And WHAT?!?!?!? No 43?!?!?!? Dang, dude, that just SUCKS! :shocked:

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Jack
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#31 Re: What is your carry gun of choice

Postby Jack » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:56 pm

I've watched and read all the legal advice I can find and the overwhelming theme is that there's not much you can do afterwards to improve your chances in court if it wasn't a good shoot to begin with. But there's probably a lot you can do to hurt your case.

You being former LE the optics of you carrying cuffs is different than if I did it. You also know how to cuff someone without them getting the best of you.

For me, if someone is still mobile enough to need cuffing then they're still dangerous and I'm not about to try to cuff them. That would be like an untrained person trying to handle a poisonous snake. I just ain't doin' it.

For me, I'm not even drawing the gun until I've made the decision to shoot. And if I do, I'm not going to stop shooting until the threat is neutralized. If he goes down and I can get the gun away from him then I might try. If it's in a place where I can just kick it away without having to take a hand off my gun.

After they're disarmed then I may try to help them depending on the situation. For example if I'm sure they're disarmed and there are other people there to help me. Then maybe. But people who get shot with pistols have a nasty habit of getting a second wind when their blood pressure comes back up. I've seen videos where people go down as if they're dead, but it's just due to the sudden drop in blood pressure, like if you stand up too fast. Then they come to with a lot of fight left in them. You could be trying to help them and end up with them coming to and taking your gun away from you. Or pulling a knife you didn't see. So many people who warrent shooting are on crazy drugs that make them superhuman and possessed to boot. You just can't predict what someone is going to do.

You also don't know what diseases this person might have. You might very well be bleeding too. Maybe they cut you before you shot them and now you're mixing your blood while trying to stop their bleeding.

I think the best the average person can do is only shoot if their life is in danger and stop shooting when the threat is over. And after that just stand by and keep their mouth shut.

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#32 Re: What is your carry gun of choice

Postby BadgeBunny » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:40 pm

Jack wrote:And after that just stand by and keep their mouth shut.


THIS is what gets people in trouble. They just don't have the ability to NOT talk ...

I worked for an attorney who had some extremely wealthy, extremely "unethical" clients whom he would tell ALL THE TIME "The side of the road is NOT where you explain yourself. You pay me a lot of money in case you find yourself "visiting" with law enforcement. It is MUCH easier for me to explain away what you DIDN'T say, than it is for me to explain away what you FREELY ADMITTED. DON'T TALK. Call me and I will take care of it."

Did they ever NOT talk?? No. Sung like birds every single time. It's crazy. I won't even talk to the Old JBT when we are arguing ... :wink: :rolling:

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#33 Re: What is your carry gun of choice

Postby Jack » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:03 pm

BadgeBunny wrote:
Jack wrote:And after that just stand by and keep their mouth shut.


THIS is what gets people in trouble. They just don't have the ability to NOT talk ...

I worked for an attorney who had some extremely wealthy, extremely "unethical" clients whom he would tell ALL THE TIME "The side of the road is NOT where you explain yourself. You pay me a lot of money in case you find yourself "visiting" with law enforcement. It is MUCH easier for me to explain away what you DIDN'T say, than it is for me to explain away what you FREELY ADMITTED. DON'T TALK. Call me and I will take care of it."

Did they ever NOT talk?? No. Sung like birds every single time. It's crazy. I won't even talk to the Old JBT when we are arguing ... :wink: :rolling:


The best thing to do is probably say you're having chest pains and ask to be taken to the hospital, that way they don't even have the chance to question you while you're still in limbic mode. And be on the phone with a lawyer before they even get the EKG hooked up. :lol:

Besides talking when they should shut up, the other mistake everyone makes is not getting a lawyer from the word go. No one in history was ever convicted because getting a lawyer made them look guilty, but plenty of innocent people have been convicted because they failed to get a lawyer before giving a statement to police.

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#34 Re: What is your carry gun of choice

Postby BadgeBunny » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:58 pm

Jack wrote:
BadgeBunny wrote:
Jack wrote:And after that just stand by and keep their mouth shut.


THIS is what gets people in trouble. They just don't have the ability to NOT talk ...

I worked for an attorney who had some extremely wealthy, extremely "unethical" clients whom he would tell ALL THE TIME "The side of the road is NOT where you explain yourself. You pay me a lot of money in case you find yourself "visiting" with law enforcement. It is MUCH easier for me to explain away what you DIDN'T say, than it is for me to explain away what you FREELY ADMITTED. DON'T TALK. Call me and I will take care of it."

Did they ever NOT talk?? No. Sung like birds every single time. It's crazy. I won't even talk to the Old JBT when we are arguing ... :wink: :rolling:


The best thing to do is probably say you're having chest pains and ask to be taken to the hospital, that way they don't even have the chance to question you while you're still in limbic mode. And be on the phone with a lawyer before they even get the EKG hooked up. :lol:

Besides talking when they should shut up, the other mistake everyone makes is not getting a lawyer from the word go. No one in history was ever convicted because getting a lawyer made them look guilty, but plenty of innocent people have been convicted because they failed to get a lawyer before giving a statement to police.


That is EXACTLY what I would do. Tell the responding officer(s) that I want to help them with their investigation, but I feel sick and can I please be transported. And if they wouldn't mind, would they please call my husband and tell him where I am going because he's expecting me. Anything other than that is gonna be met with "I'm sorry, I want to help you but I'm afraid I'm gonna faint/puke/can't catch my breath, all of which I'm pretty sure is gonna be true of I have to shoot somebody. God help me, it is my most fervent prayer it never comes to that. I'm not nearly as mean ... or as tough ... as I like to think I am ... :sos:


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